How can hazardous substances be temperature-controlled safely and efficiently in industrial environments? In this episode of the IoT Use Case Podcast, host Madeleine Mickeleit talks to Dr. Jan Regtmeier, Director Innovation and RD at DENIOS, and Dipl.-Eng. Thomas Hollasch, Area Sales Manager North at EXOR, about this challenge and more.
Industrial companies are often faced with the problem of storing and tempering hazardous substances under extreme conditions, while at the same time having to ensure the safety of employees and the smooth running of processes. This is exactly where the solution from EXOR and DENIOS comes in. The smart heating chamber from DENIOS, in combination with the IoT solutions from EXOR, enables precise monitoring and control of processes – even in harsh industrial environments.
Challenges that are addressed in this episode:
Solutions provided by EXOR and DENIOS:
Today I’m talking to Dr. Jan Regtmeier, today Jan for you IoT enthusiasts, Director Innovator Head of RD at DENIOS SE. DENIOS specializes in the environment, services and the safe handling of hazardous substances. And I’m talking to Dipl.-Eng. Thomas Hollasch, Thomas for you today too. He is Area Sales Manager for the North region in Germany at our IoT partner EXOR. You’ll find out exactly what EXOR does in a moment. Today we will be talking together about this exciting new development in the field of technical room systems. It is the brand new DENIOS Heating Box. We take a look at what exactly it is, which use cases you can solve with it and how this IoT solution can help you to temper material efficiently. We also discuss how the partnership between EXOR and DENIOS creates real added value for you. If you want to know what challenges are being tackled in the industry and how the technology behind them is developing, then you’ve come to the right place. Stay tuned, you’ll find out now. As always, you can find all the information at www.iotusecase.com and in the show notes.
Hello Thomas and hello Jan, welcome to the IoT Use Case Podcast. Jan, where are you, where can I reach you right now?
Jan
I’m actually in the office in beautiful Bad Oeynhausen, the northern tip of North Rhine-Westphalia, and the weather is really nice outside.
Very good, that’s the first thing you two have in common, because, I think, Thomas, you’re also in the north.
Thomas
Exactly. I’m also in the north, not that far away from Jan. I work from home in Giesen. Hardly anyone has probably heard of this place. It is located between Hanover and Hildesheim. From here, I look after the whole of northern Germany for EXOR Deutschland GmbH.
Awesome. And Jan, Bad Oeynhausen is the town with the thermal baths, isn’t that what they say?
Jan
Exactly, and the very well-known Heart and Diabetes Center.
Yes, okay, very good. Greetings at this point to the north or wherever you are listening. Now that we’re off to a good start, I would of course be very interested to know who you are. Jan, I’ll start with you and have to make a brief reference. Maybe some of you already know Jan from episode 113, where you were a guest. But Jan, for those who don’t know you yet, would you like to briefly introduce yourself?
Jan
Of course, I’d love to. I am Jan, Director Innovation at DENIOS SE. I studied physics at some point, then worked in basic research for a while, did a few years of business development in the field of connectivity and IoT and have now been with DENIOS for four years. Here I have the great pleasure of driving our products forward.
Very nice. And Thomas, maybe a quick word about you – what exactly do you do at EXOR? Where are you from?
Thomas
Yes, where do I come from? Well, I originally come from a classical electrical engineering background, studied communications engineering in Hanover and then went into working life. In Hanover, I worked for seven years in a purely technical capacity at a mechanical engineering company and then I embarked on a sales career. That was over 25 years ago, always in the field of automation technology with various suppliers of automation systems. I have been with EXOR Deutschland GmbH since the beginning of 2023 and am responsible for sales in northern Germany with our entire X Platform portfolio. I’ll come back to what exactly that means later.
Sounds exciting and certainly brings a lot of experience with it. I am looking forward to delving deeper into the topic today. You’re here together today. Can you explain how you came together and what the project is today?
Jan
I’ll get started. We’ve been doing really good business with EXOR for a long time, we’ve been partners for a long time and I’m delighted that Thomas decided to join EXOR in 2023. EXOR is a supplier of many components for us. We’ll take a closer look at that later. The project we did together is the so-called DENIOS Heating Box. This falls into the area that we call thermal technologies. So how do I actually get things warmed up in industry and in industrial processes? To put it bluntly, it is basically a large convection oven. The use case is that many customers need to temper different liquids so that they can then be used sensibly. With certain chemicals that are very viscous at room temperature, warming them up makes their consistency more fluid, which makes them easier to process. The challenge is to do this as energy-efficiently and quickly as possible – that is the sustainability background.
Yes, I just called up your website while you were speaking, and you can see a picture of this, I’ll call it a heat chamber. I’ll put this in the show notes. If you’re listening, take a look. That looks pretty big. I think if I were standing next to it, it would definitely be over two meters high, wouldn’t it?
Jan
The heating box we’re talking about today is the smallest version, so to speak. It is about the height and width of a man. But we also have variants that are easily up to eight meters wide and three to four meters high, sometimes even five meters. These are really container sizes, if you like.
Okay, and what exactly is in there?
Jan
Exactly, there’s nothing in there to begin with except warm air. That’s the trick. We basically build the oven – with a little brainpower and cleverness if possible – and the customers then use it. They put various things in them, often IBCs, which are 1000-liter cubes, or drums that everyone knows, these 200-liter steel drums. They are placed in the classic way. However, there may also be metal or plastic parts that need to be thermally processed. There are all kinds of different things in our rooms.
Okay, and I think IBC stands for Intermediate Bulk Container. So, this is just a large container, right?
Jan
Exactly, it’s a 1000-liter cube in which liquids are transported. In the chemical and process industries, this is the standard for liquid transportation.
What exactly is the use case behind this? So what exactly are you doing with this heating box now?
Jan
There are two use cases for which we urgently need IoT and have built it in. The first is that we have to control and regulate the heating box. You can either do this on site, i.e. edge, everything directly on site, or remotely. The second use case often concerns compliance rules. Many customers have to prove how the temperature control was carried out: Was the temperature window maintained, and for how long? These are quality issues or general compliance issues. With the IoT solution, we implement both local data logging and storage in the cloud. This means that you can prove and trace exactly what happened at any time.
And Thomas, what exactly is your role? What components do you supply, or what exactly are you doing now?
Thomas
Yes, I’ll go a little further. On the cooperation between DENIOS and EXOR: As Jan has already mentioned, our companies have been working together since well before my time. I joined at the beginning of 2023, got to know many people from Jan’s team and other DENIOS colleagues. I got to know Jan myself through the IoT Use Case Podcast, became aware of him and then made contact. The first time we met in person was at ACHEMA, where the Heating Box was exhibited for the first time. Since then, we have been in constant contact and I have to say that communication is great. I am also really pleased to have found a good sparring partner in him.
It’s cool that the podcast format also works.
Thomas
Exactly, I can definitely confirm that. Yes, and so far we have mainly equipped hazardous materials warehouses for outdoor use with our HMIs. In other words, these are really HMIs for harsh environmental conditions, for an extended temperature range. But it’s not just HMIs, Jan has already emphasized that it is very important that certain actions are also logged. There is basically a certain amount of track and trace happening at the plant. This is exactly what we can do with our HMIs. We collect the data, process it and then ultimately pass it on to the cloud. Alongside user interaction, this is a key feature with which we contribute to the IoT solution.
In other words, it’s essentially about the use case – to put it simply – condition monitoring of the heating box and the issue of compliance at the same time. Jan, you’ve just mentioned this, we’ll come back to the business case behind it in a moment. On the technical side, it’s about data collection, processing and storage and then the interface to the cloud, where the data can be used to ultimately solve the business case for the customer. Can you put it that way?
Jan
Yes, exactly, super well described. We also use the EXOR development environment. This means that it’s not just about software, telecommunications and hardware, but also about the development environment, because as manufacturers and developers we naturally need to have good tools in order to be able to develop quickly. It really works very conveniently.
Thomas, I have another question about your core business. For those who do not yet know EXOR: You are part of EXOR Deutschland GmbH. We will come back to the products and functions in more detail later. But maybe you can give us a brief background? Where does EXOR come from, and you also have a parent company. Can you give us a bit of an overview before we delve deeper?
Thomas
Yes, very much so. As you say, EXOR belongs to a parent company based in Italy, more precisely in beautiful Verona. We have been on the market with our HMI solutions for over 50 years, and many customers have certainly come into contact with our products without knowing that EXOR is behind them. We supply many large automation companies in the brand label business. There are big names among them, which unfortunately I can’t name them all now, but everyone knows them. That’s why everyone knows EXOR. We are also active in direct business with customers in mechanical and plant engineering as well as in building and ship automation. I’ve just spent the last two days in Hamburg at SMM, where we have a lot of customers exhibiting there, and I’ve had some exciting discussions about new projects. Our portfolio is therefore very versatile.
Yes, amazing! This definitely calls for another episode, perhaps also from other industry segments. But now it’s important to emphasize once again: You originally come from the HMI business, but now you also act as a holistic solution provider. You’ve already mentioned the X Platform, which represents your IoT expertise and has a huge ecosystem behind it, right?
Thomas
Exactly. That’s basically what has really taken off in the last few years. To roughly outline it, the X Platform is made up of the components hardware, IoT software, which is our JMobile, the development system that Jan just mentioned, and finally our CORVINA IoT platform. With these components, you can really build very nice use cases.
Okay, we’ll come back to how this works technologically in a moment. But perhaps I should turn back to you, Jan. You mentioned the business case earlier. Why should companies use IoT technologies at all? That is an investment to begin with. Can you tell us a bit about your vision and what happens with your customers? Why are you going in this direction, and what is the business case behind it?
Jan
We have provided a template for how this could be implemented. What was interesting was that the reaction of customers was super positive. The topic of quality and compliance in particular is extremely present today, in really many places. Customers – and often our customers’ customers – want to be able to understand exactly what has been done. Everyone wants to make sure that the product works as expected. Accordingly, we now often have the requirement that temperature tracking, humidity and fault messages are recorded automatically and are 100 percent traceable. That is indeed our business case.
You’re right, an IoT project doesn’t implement itself, but with the right partners it’s not difficult either. On the business side, we have now structured it so that our customers can decide whether they only want the pure hardware product or also the IoT part. This is now real business.
Super exciting, especially that your customers are so open! You have both large and medium-sized customers. This is not a matter of course, as many companies have not yet reached this level of digital maturity. You really have to emphasize that your customers are so willing to go along with this push.
Jan
Right. I think a key feature is simplicity. The close cooperation between Thomas and us ensures that we make it so easy for the customer that they don’t have to worry about it. Our focus is always on the added value we can offer the customer. We hide all the technology stuff, which of course I love doing, a bit.
Perhaps we should now delve into the business case, because I’m sure many people are interested in this: Why do people make investments in this area at all? You talked about the heat chamber. Perhaps we can explain the process so that people understand what the business case is for your customers. They use the Heating Box to heat their substances, e.g. in tanks. So what is the business case? How do customers lose time and money today, to put it bluntly?
Jan
There are two aspects to it. Firstly, does the customer really know whether the medium is already really warm? If he removes it too early and introduces it into the process, it can shut down entire systems. A shutdown system – I don’t think I need to explain this to anyone – means standstill. It must be cleaned and restarted. This is a nightmare for everyone in the industry. That is one case. The other case is that the temperatures may not have been maintained correctly. The other case is that it can happen that the temperatures have not been maintained correctly. We know this from earlier ovens: one corner of the cake was burnt while the other was still raw. If a customer removes an IBC that is not yet properly warm, they have a problem. So the business case is to ensure that the medium is at the correct temperature and we prove that the temperatures were exactly what the customer needed for their process.
Okay, maybe a stupid question, what does this have to do with a honeybee? On your website I see the slogan “honeybee as a role model”. For all those who are wondering what this has to do with a bee. What is behind it?
Jan
There are two reasons for this. On the one hand, we have the so-called environmental heroes, our trainees. Among other things, they ensure that we now produce our own honey. But there is actually a real use case behind it: Honey needs to be slightly preheated so that it can be processed properly. Honey is very sensitive; if it gets too warm, the taste changes, which the consumer would notice immediately. Honey must therefore be warmed carefully so that it is easy to process and still tastes good in the end. The honeybee is therefore a perfect example of temperature-sensitive handling for us.
Okay, interesting! I’ll link that in the show notes. If you’re wondering what we’re talking about. That’s really pretty cool. Your customers’ challenges are obvious. That really wastes time and money, especially when it comes to cleaning the systems and so on. If we now perhaps go one step deeper, I always like to talk about the data that comes with it. You probably primarily measure the temperature, don’t you? Is there any other sensor data that you record?
Jan
We are quite flexible thanks to the possibilities that EXOR offers us. At the moment, however, we are concentrating primarily on the temperature issue. However, we are already prepared, for example for the aviation market, where both temperature and humidity are often required. We could also implement this today. But temperature is currently the most important parameter.
Okay, and what about integration into the cloud or IT systems? Do you also use customer data? For example, are IT systems connected, or is it just the machine data?
Jan
No, in fact we have deliberately kept the two separate. I think that is part of our success. These customer integration projects are often very complex. We have decided that our products work autonomously, each has its own SIM card, and we don’t need to connect to the customer’s WLAN or Bluetooth connection. Our customers appreciate this very much, especially in large corporations. It is often extremely time-consuming to connect to the industrial WLAN or production WLAN. When we do integrations, it’s usually cloud-to-cloud, not on-premise. It’s much smoother that way.
What was your technical challenge in implementing this? You could have said, we’ll do it all ourselves. What were the typical technical challenges and requirements for the EXOR solution?
Jan
Exactly, as Thomas said earlier, robustness is extremely important for us in the industrial environment. For us, this is always associated with longevity. The products must function for a long time, and if we need spare parts after many years, this must also be possible. It is always difficult to explain to the customer that a spare part is no longer available. The third point that works really well is the collaboration in the development environments. EXOR gives us the support we need to design our application on the HMI, i.e. what the customer sees on the display, conveniently with these tools.
So you’ve not only chosen the hardware, but also the software you need to connect the PLC and see the data where you want it?
Jan
Exactly, to see the data, pre-process it, save it and then send it on.
Thomas, before we get into the actual solution, what do you think is special about the partnership with DENIOS? What are the advantages from your point of view?
Thomas
You’ve just mentioned the word partnership, and that’s a steep leap for me. I have always lived my sales life in such a way that I didn’t just want to build a pure customer-supplier relationship, but preferred real partnerships. DENIOS works really well, especially with Jan. DENIOS is a model customer for me because we can coordinate our work quickly. You can also place a beta product and say, try it out. Give us feedback, this is also important for other customers. For me, this is a key aspect of the cooperation between DENIOS and EXOR.
This is often the case in IoT, where you act more as a partner and a lot happens iteratively. You learn from your mistakes together and walk the path together for many years, don’t you?
Jan
Exactly, the cultural aspect is crucial. IoT doesn’t work without that. We work across so many disciplines that it can only work in partnership.
Now I wouldn’t want to drift too much into the technical side of things, but I’m interested in the implementation and exactly how you did it. For those who are not so technical, Jan, I have a question later on about return on investment. I hope I’m not challenging you too much with this, but I’d like to talk about it again. Nevertheless, I am very interested in the implementation. Could you perhaps briefly explain the components that make up this solution? What I have understood high-level so far is that you have the heating box, a data connection, a PLC, data logging, the development environment and various components. Can you explain in more detail which products are actually used here?
Thomas
Basically, there aren’t that many products. This is also what makes this solution so appealing, as it requires relatively few hardware components. Ultimately, we integrated our HMI into the solution. In the existing outdoor facilities, we use equipment that is suitable for outdoor use. For the Heating Box, which is only installed indoors, we can use our entry-level eSmart range. These devices offer really good value for money without compromising on functionality. The box naturally gets warm, so even our device, although it is an entry-level device, has an extended temperature range. The solution contains a powerful 32-bit RISC CPU and we use a 7-inch display with a resolution of 800 x 480 pixels. The operating system is embedded Linux, which is also relatively secure against hacker attacks, which is not uninteresting in some applications. And, very importantly, the device complies with ATEX Zone 2 approval.
Mhm, also very important. In other words, the area in which an explosive atmosphere prevails, right?
Jan
Right. There are different zones and ATEX Zone 2 is frequently encountered and is also easy to solve. This is particularly important for us in the chemical industry, where ATEX requirements are very common. You really have to work with partners you can rely on. In such an atmosphere, nobody wants an accident to happen.
Okay, so I now understand that there is a display, a specific processor, an operating system, and the device is adapted to the requirements. Jan, would you like to add something to this? Or what is the overall product?
Jan
So there is still a small PLC, which is rather underpowered because we use the computing power on Thomas’ HMI. Then we send the data to the cloud using a router. In the cloud, there is a middleware, and behind it is what the customer sees as a web application. This completes the entire route. We really do map everything from the sensor to the cloud.
Now you have said that the data is transmitted via a SIM card. Is that even a lot of data? What is the frequency of the data?
Jan
Exactly. We often have the discussion that many people think you need tons of data. But we talk to customers to find out what really makes sense. Temperature is a rather sluggish signal, if you look at the room temperature, it does not change in the millisecond range. As a rule, we transmit the data every minute. We could also be much faster if necessary, or slower, depending on the customer’s requirements. We deliberately use Narrowband IoT for this. This is a sub-band of the 4G standard, which has super penetration. As Thomas already mentioned, the Heating Box is often located in buildings made of reinforced concrete, and yet we can still reach the outside safely and reliably with our radio signal. That’s why Narrowband IoT really is an excellent technology here.
Yes, very nice. The last step would be the evaluation of the data. You want to solve the business case for the customer in the areas of quality, compliance and the other topics we have mentioned. How does the storage, visualization and analysis of the data work?
Jan
Exactly. In my view, this is another of EXOR’s strengths. We do this in two parts. We want and need to have the data available on site at the box, i.e. edge computing. The HMI itself stores the data, visualizes it and allows it to be analysed, enlarged or zoomed directly on the display. At the same time, the data is also transferred to the cloud. So it is a double interpretation, quite deliberately. In the cloud, you then have additional options, such as exporting or further processing data. For us, it is always important that both are possible, that we can evaluate the data on site at the heating box and in the cloud at the same time. What sets EXOR’s solution apart is that both options are available.
Thomas
Exactly, perhaps I can make a brief addition. Jan mentioned earlier that traceability is very important and that no data should be lost. The fact that you can save and pre-process everything locally is a big advantage here. Basically, only the pre-selected data needs to be transferred via the SIM card and the chargeable data connection on the control and HMI platform.
So there is no data loss thanks to the architecture you have ensured. So the interaction works reliably.
Now perhaps as a final question, Jan, I’ve already teased it briefly. This is a question that I have time and again in discussions with customers. What is the business case behind it? May I challenge you as to whether you have already achieved a return on investment, or is that a critical question?
Jan
No, no, it’s all good. That is a completely justified and legitimate question. After all, this is business and not private life. Of course we want to and will earn money with it. As Thomas said, we went live at ACHEMA in the summer and will now be delivering the first products. With our other IoT products, the return on investment was always between two and a maximum of three years. That was also the reason why we said we were going down this path. It is still too early for the heating box, but based on experience from other projects, I am confident that it will be the same.
The business case is also clearly recognizable. As you say, if the box is not really warm and you open it too early – let me put it simply – you have to clean the system, which is expensive. Or if the temperature is not maintained, further problems arise. This is a real pain point for your customers. Does this still need a push from your sales department, or is it also a consulting-intensive topic?
Jan
This definitely requires a lot of consultation. You need to understand the customer exactly: What material does he have, what component, what are the requirements? We are often deeply involved in the customer’s process, but in my view that also makes it very exciting because the processes are so varied.
Very good. Then my last question for today. I still have a lot of questions in my head, but time flies. What are the topics that you will be dealing with in the future? I mean, the project is still ongoing, but do you already see any further developments, either technologically or specifically for the Heating Box, that will be relevant in the future?
Jan
For the heating box, I can say quite clearly that we will be making an ATEX version. That’s at the top of our list. We will also continue to expand the area of data collection, as customers are increasingly requesting various reports. This is a clear issue for us, and I see a very exciting future ahead of us.
And Thomas, what’s your situation?
Thomas
Of course the DENIOS project will continue. We will continue to develop the solution and perhaps transfer it to other products. But in general, with regard to the further development of Exor, you mentioned earlier that we are evolving into a complete solution provider for automation and IoT solutions. We are right in the middle of this, and I see an exciting future. Our X Platform is designed to meet the needs of our mechanical engineering customers today, to keep an eye on the needs of tomorrow and to develop ideas for the future.
Condition monitoring and AI are topics we are working on. Energy efficiency is becoming increasingly important for many customers, especially with regard to the CO2 footprint of their machines and systems. Performance optimization and OEE are also key areas in which our CORVINA platform supports customers, and looking further into the future, we are working on a marketplace that we want to implement on our IoT platform. Virtual reality and the autonomous factory are also topics that we are already working on today. These are issues for the future that we consider to be extremely important.
Yes, that sounds amazing. For anyone listening, I will link you to EXOR’s exciting projects from various sectors. It is really impressive how many customers and applications you have already realized and continue to implement. This applies to all sectors. Take a look to find out more about the cases that EXOR has implemented with customers.
Thomas, where can I visit you? You have a kind of walking tour or what do you call it?
Thomas
So you can see us live at the SPS trade fair in Nuremberg, for example, which takes place in November, which is not that long away. We will be making a big appearance there and presenting many innovations. You’ve already mentioned that you can book a walking tour of our Smart Factory in Verona via our website. This Smart Factory has been built in collaboration with Intel according to the latest standards. Everything we offer in terms of hardware and software products is used there and is constantly being developed further. It’s really worth seeing, even if you’re not an EXOR customer. Our motto is: “Forget Verona, look at the Smart Factory instead.”
I would really like to come and have a look at the factory. Otherwise, that’s right, the SPS trade fair in Nuremberg is November 12-14. And I have to make a quick announcement on my own behalf: On Tuesday, Nov. 12, we have a meet-up at 5 PM at the OPC Foundation, which defines the OPC UA standards in the industry.
Come along, it’s an open meeting, there’s great food, drinks and a bit of networking. Both of you are of course cordially invited, I would be delighted to see you there. See you at the SPS. If you listen to this episode later and the fair is already over – no problem. I will link the contacts to you in the show notes so that our listeners can initiate best practices and exchange directly with you.
From my side, thank you very much for the exciting insights. It was concise, entertaining and very exciting. I understood the business case well and how you solved the issue. Thank you very much for that, and I’ll give you the last word.
Jan
Thank you, Thomas, thank you, Madeleine. As always, it was a great pleasure and I think we have created a really nice example of IoT together.
Thomas
Yes, many thanks to Madeleine and Jan from my side too. For me, this was the first podcast I’ve recorded and I’m amazed at how quickly the time flew by. I could have gone on and on, but I would like you to contact me if you would like to find out more about this or other EXOR use cases.
Very nice. I hope you have a great rest of the week. Take care. Bye.
Thomas
Thank you, you too, ciao.
Jan
Thank you, ciao!